Comments on: “Flat Rate” vs. Time and Materials HVACR & Plumbing Pricing http://www.thehvacguru.com/flat-rate-hvac-plumbing-companies/ Innovative Solutions For Building Owners and Tradesmen Mon, 09 Jan 2012 03:36:24 -0500 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2 By: Scotthttp://www.thehvacguru.com/flat-rate-hvac-plumbing-companies/#comment-68 Scott Thu, 16 Dec 2010 01:43:36 +0000 http://www.protechhvac.com/flat-rate-hvac-plumbing-companies/#comment-68 I am third generation in this business and I have to say that not all flat rate companies are dishonest. The trick is to be fair to all involved. I know there are many contractors out there who become greedy and charge way to much, but that also happens with nuerologists (nod to Boyd, you must live in south Florida). As a business owner who is laying out capital I am allowed to expect some return on my investment but I am not greedy. I have learned that most service techs average between 4-6 billable hours a day, the rest is spent travleing to and from jobs. The way we have set up our flat rate is to calculate hourly costs based on 40 hours and divide by the average billable hours. So If I know the technician costs me $25.00 and hour and the then I calcluate all the overhead (taxes, liability insurance, Workers compensation insurance, fuel, truck insurance, phone bills, advertising, electric, dispatcher, average truck repairs and maintenance, rent or mortage, benefits, owners compensation, and vehicle replacements) I could come up with between a cost or $75.00 an hour to $125.00 an hour. I keep my overhead low and average about $87.00 an hour based on 5 hours of billable time and from that I formulate my mark-up of 20% which gives me an hourly rate of $110.00. All "Tasks" are figured at a minimum of 15 minutes and all al figured based on National Labor Standards and adjusted fairly. The first task basically contains the diagnostic fee of $70. and all additional work is secondary. I feel this fair and allows me to provide fair wages for my employees while still being fair to I serve but allow me to eran a decent wage for me and my family. I will concede that there are many greedy contractors out there and disagree with those who base there pay on commission. But I also disagree with Lawyers who charge $500.00 an hour and have minimum 1/2 billings. I wi I am third generation in this business and I have to say that not all flat rate companies are dishonest. The trick is to be fair to all involved. I know there are many contractors out there who become greedy and charge way to much, but that also happens with nuerologists (nod to Boyd, you must live in south Florida). As a business owner who is laying out capital I am allowed to expect some return on my investment but I am not greedy. I have learned that most service techs average between 4-6 billable hours a day, the rest is spent travleing to and from jobs. The way we have set up our flat rate is to calculate hourly costs based on 40 hours and divide by the average billable hours. So If I know the technician costs me $25.00 and hour and the then I calcluate all the overhead (taxes, liability insurance, Workers compensation insurance, fuel, truck insurance, phone bills, advertising, electric, dispatcher, average truck repairs and maintenance, rent or mortage, benefits, owners compensation, and vehicle replacements) I could come up with between a cost or $75.00 an hour to $125.00 an hour. I keep my overhead low and average about $87.00 an hour based on 5 hours of billable time and from that I formulate my mark-up of 20% which gives me an hourly rate of $110.00. All “Tasks” are figured at a minimum of 15 minutes and all al figured based on National Labor Standards and adjusted fairly. The first task basically contains the diagnostic fee of $70. and all additional work is secondary. I feel this fair and allows me to provide fair wages for my employees while still being fair to I serve but allow me to eran a decent wage for me and my family.

I will concede that there are many greedy contractors out there and disagree with those who base there pay on commission. But I also disagree with Lawyers who charge $500.00 an hour and have minimum 1/2 billings.

I wi

]]> By: Beacon Plumbing and Mechanicalhttp://www.thehvacguru.com/flat-rate-hvac-plumbing-companies/#comment-67 Beacon Plumbing and Mechanical Mon, 27 Sep 2010 01:40:41 +0000 http://www.protechhvac.com/flat-rate-hvac-plumbing-companies/#comment-67 A smart consumer should do their research before accepting a flat rate quote for the work being done. Go on google and find out how long it will take to fix the diagnosed problem. If you are getting charged through the nose for 45 minutes of work than maybe you should make the smart move and look into an hourly plumber. If you are getting an expensive job done for a decent flat rate than stick with the flat rate. Plumbing improvements are investments in your home, so invest wisely. A smart consumer should do their research before accepting a flat rate quote for the work being done.

Go on google and find out how long it will take to fix the diagnosed problem. If you are getting charged through the nose for 45 minutes of work than maybe you should make the smart move and look into an hourly plumber. If you are getting an expensive job done for a decent flat rate than stick with the flat rate.

Plumbing improvements are investments in your home, so invest wisely.

]]> By: Evan Conklinhttp://www.thehvacguru.com/flat-rate-hvac-plumbing-companies/#comment-66 Evan Conklin Thu, 08 Apr 2010 14:17:30 +0000 http://www.protechhvac.com/flat-rate-hvac-plumbing-companies/#comment-66 OK, I think I have the answer for those of us combating the big ad flat rate shops hogging the eyeballs of the consumer looking for a service company. In your advertising simply offer a guaranteed cost savings of 20% or more off any big ad flat rate shops' proposal. Just plant the seed in the consumers brain and let them continue shopping if they wish. The seed will sprout with a significant number of homeowners to make a difference I believe. I just placed this type of ad on my website www.seattleplumber.com this AM. I will keep you informed how it goes. OK, I think I have the answer for those of us combating the big ad flat rate shops hogging the eyeballs of the consumer looking for a service company.
In your advertising simply offer a guaranteed cost savings of 20% or more off any big ad flat rate shops’ proposal.
Just plant the seed in the consumers brain and let them continue shopping if they wish. The seed will sprout with a significant number of homeowners to make a difference I believe.
I just placed this type of ad on my website http://www.seattleplumber.com this AM. I will keep you informed how it goes.

]]> By: Evan Conklinhttp://www.thehvacguru.com/flat-rate-hvac-plumbing-companies/#comment-65 Evan Conklin Mon, 29 Mar 2010 23:12:19 +0000 http://www.protechhvac.com/flat-rate-hvac-plumbing-companies/#comment-65 This is the best article I have seen on the subject. I have been a plumber and heating guy gor over 35 years and whether I charged out my time or offered a "flat-rate" did not really make any difference to me as my need was to insure that I wasn't working for free. My flat-rate charges were based upon my estimation of time at what I knew my hourly rate to be. Sometimes the customer had a need for a "firm price" and I was happy to give it to him once I saw the job. My issue with flat-rate shops is simply this: The flat-rate is simply being used as an effective means to hide the COST BASIS from the customer. If you feel you are entitled to $400.00 an hour, that is fine with me but I think your customer would have a problem with that hourly rate if you told him on the phone or to his face. Simply telling him or her that you don't charge by the hour but you ONLY charge by the job doesn't change the situation. You are just manipulating your customer in a way that they resent. Yes, it is an effective method for getting the customer to pay more for your services but you are committed to big advertising budgets as you will seldom see the same customer twice. Over the years I have been a staunch believer in the time and material charge basis because it is transparent. I don't enjoy battling with my customers while in their house doing the work or arguing over the bill amount. I enjoy my work and I like my customers. In fact I value them because I need them and they need me. We need each other. The transparency of how we charge insures that there are few misunderstandings between us. Of late, I admit that I am starting to have some doubts about whether or not charging by the hour can work in the long run. The reason I am having doubts is that in the last couple of years I have noticed a change in my customers buying psychology. Not very many years ago, probably 95% of the new customers calling on the phone committed to an appointment for service after telling them our hourly rate. Now it's maybe 50% that order service - the other 50% go elsewhere. We are truely one of the lowest cost plumbers here in Seattle but the new customer doesn't recognize it. They hear the hourly rate and think it is high and continue shopping. Who do they end up with? A flat-rate shop usually. How can that be when they do not tell them what their charges are? The reality is this: The naive consumer prefers an unknown price to a known one when the unknown cost is Assumed to be better somehow. It is IMPLIED to be better, cheaper more reliable etc. The consumer of the 21st century is, in general, not willing to pay the cost of our services. The cost of everything has gone up dramatically over the last decade or two except wages and hourly services. The cost to provide plumbing and heating services here in Seattle averages about $90 an hour. The hourly rate to the customer should be about $165.00 if we want to continue providing the services (and continue paying taxes, rent, insurance, and paying the licensed mechanics enough to pay a mortgage around here). We can't quote that rate. The truth is that if we tell new customers on the phone $165 per hour they will will hang up and call the shop with the big ad that assures them that they will know the price before they do the work (while hiding the cost basis which in fact is much higher than $165). So it seems that the customer doesn't really want to know the cost until it is too late for them to do anything about it. Pretty depressing isn't it? I suppose we will be forced to flat rate sometime in the near future because of this but we will have a cost basis that relates directly to our costs and our traditional profit margins. This is the best article I have seen on the subject. I have been a plumber and heating guy gor over 35 years and whether I charged out my time or offered a “flat-rate” did not really make any difference to me as my need was to insure that I wasn’t working for free. My flat-rate charges were based upon my estimation of time at what I knew my hourly rate to be. Sometimes the customer had a need for a “firm price” and I was happy to give it to him once I saw the job.
My issue with flat-rate shops is simply this: The flat-rate is simply being used as an effective means to hide the COST BASIS from the customer.
If you feel you are entitled to $400.00 an hour, that is fine with me but I think your customer would have a problem with that hourly rate if you told him on the phone or to his face. Simply telling him or her that you don’t charge by the hour but you ONLY charge by the job doesn’t change the situation. You are just manipulating your customer in a way that they resent. Yes, it is an effective method for getting the customer to pay more for your services but you are committed to big advertising budgets as you will seldom see the same customer twice.
Over the years I have been a staunch believer in the time and material charge basis because it is transparent. I don’t enjoy battling with my customers while in their house doing the work or arguing over the bill amount. I enjoy my work and I like my customers. In fact I value them because I need them and they need me. We need each other. The transparency of how we charge insures that there are few misunderstandings between us.
Of late, I admit that I am starting to have some doubts about whether or not charging by the hour can work in the long run. The reason I am having doubts is that in the last couple of years I have noticed a change in my customers buying psychology. Not very many years ago, probably 95% of the new customers calling on the phone committed to an appointment for service after telling them our hourly rate. Now it’s maybe 50% that order service – the other 50% go elsewhere. We are truely one of the lowest cost plumbers here in Seattle but the new customer doesn’t recognize it. They hear the hourly rate and think it is high and continue shopping. Who do they end up with? A flat-rate shop usually. How can that be when they do not tell them what their charges are? The reality is this: The naive consumer prefers an unknown price to a known one when the unknown cost is Assumed to be better somehow. It is IMPLIED to be better, cheaper more reliable etc. The consumer of the 21st century is, in general, not willing to pay the cost of our services. The cost of everything has gone up dramatically over the last decade or two except wages and hourly services. The cost to provide plumbing and heating services here in Seattle averages about $90 an hour. The hourly rate to the customer should be about $165.00 if we want to continue providing the services (and continue paying taxes, rent, insurance, and paying the licensed mechanics enough to pay a mortgage around here). We can’t quote that rate. The truth is that if we tell new customers on the phone $165 per hour they will will hang up and call the shop with the big ad that assures them that they will know the price before they do the work (while hiding the cost basis which in fact is much higher than $165).
So it seems that the customer doesn’t really want to know the cost until it is too late for them to do anything about it.
Pretty depressing isn’t it?
I suppose we will be forced to flat rate sometime in the near future because of this but we will have a cost basis that relates directly to our costs and our traditional profit margins.

]]> By: Bobhttp://www.thehvacguru.com/flat-rate-hvac-plumbing-companies/#comment-64 Bob Wed, 27 Jan 2010 02:42:12 +0000 http://www.protechhvac.com/flat-rate-hvac-plumbing-companies/#comment-64 This is alot of really good information. But I think it's trying to kill two birds with one stone, so to speak. I have flat rate and hourly customers. I implemented flat rate for my residential customers to make pricing and collection easier for my techs. I based the mark ups, etc on our existing hourly charges. It works, its reasonable, and I stand behind it. There are times when we change a blower motor in 30 minutes. And we all know that sells for $300 plus. AND we all know what the PART costs. As I told one of my best customers the other day (commercial) don't mistake efficiency for inexpensive. We are good at what we do. We have a system, and we use it for everything its worth. So, just because we're quick, that doesn't make us cheap. Actually, its quite the opposite. I'm not trying to say that one is better than the other. I compete with very large companies that have customers flock to them by the thousands that are over charged (bordering on criminal) everyday just like everyone else. Shoddy, un-ethical workmanship is one thing, and trying to close a sale on that is just wrong. That's a breakdown in the system. That's a breakdown in the company. Commissions are to blame for that in my area. A tech doesn't get paid unless he sells..... The days of expecting a customer to realistically want to pay for you to drive to their house and back to yours again on a Saturday night at whatever it costs to get you out of bed at 2am (NOT CHEAP!) just isn't going to happen anymore. And that's nothing compared to Christmas day. Take for instance the comment above about a neurosurgeon....... We simply are not worth that much money in society. Our "hourly rate" is no where near what a surgeon should make. Yet we send them to college, and cover the costs of medical school, etc....all at $65 an hour ;-p Reading this I couldn't help but wonder what you guys charge for equipment installs. I'm pretty sure it's about the same (relative to location) as I do. Would you really run a million dollar a year RETAIL HVAC or Plumbing company on the same margin as a $2,000,000.00 a year contracting HVAC or Plumbing company? Of course not. They are two different businesses requiring two different margins to do their jobs effectively. I've seen it. Try running a 45% business on 32% and see what you get at $2,000,000.00 a year gross......not much. In short its my opinion that the financial education requirement is seriously missing for almost every other contractor I meet or hear about. For those that understand, it is obvious in their companies. The companies are healthier and more robust. The techs are happier and more capable. The owners are more focused on their long term financial goals for the company and not just today's calls, or the next "sale". Flat rate has it's place and I don't think that it is flat rate's fault that customers are overcharged. There's a manager somewhere. An owner. The tech was given the authority to quote what he wanted. And there was no follow-up on the quality of the job. Just think about your mechanic. He's worth every penny when you "need" him. And no matter what anyone says, I would never want a surgeon that didn't make more than I do ;-p This is alot of really good information. But I think it’s trying to kill two birds with one stone, so to speak.

I have flat rate and hourly customers. I implemented flat rate for my residential customers to make pricing and collection easier for my techs. I based the mark ups, etc on our existing hourly charges. It works, its reasonable, and I stand behind it.

There are times when we change a blower motor in 30 minutes. And we all know that sells for $300 plus. AND we all know what the PART costs. As I told one of my best customers the other day (commercial) don’t mistake efficiency for inexpensive. We are good at what we do. We have a system, and we use it for everything its worth. So, just because we’re quick, that doesn’t make us cheap. Actually, its quite the opposite.

I’m not trying to say that one is better than the other. I compete with very large companies that have customers flock to them by the thousands that are over charged (bordering on criminal) everyday just like everyone else. Shoddy, un-ethical workmanship is one thing, and trying to close a sale on that is just wrong. That’s a breakdown in the system. That’s a breakdown in the company. Commissions are to blame for that in my area. A tech doesn’t get paid unless he sells…..

The days of expecting a customer to realistically want to pay for you to drive to their house and back to yours again on a Saturday night at whatever it costs to get you out of bed at 2am (NOT CHEAP!) just isn’t going to happen anymore. And that’s nothing compared to Christmas day.

Take for instance the comment above about a neurosurgeon……. We simply are not worth that much money in society. Our “hourly rate” is no where near what a surgeon should make. Yet we send them to college, and cover the costs of medical school, etc….all at $65 an hour ;-p

Reading this I couldn’t help but wonder what you guys charge for equipment installs. I’m pretty sure it’s about the same (relative to location) as I do. Would you really run a million dollar a year RETAIL HVAC or Plumbing company on the same margin as a $2,000,000.00 a year contracting HVAC or Plumbing company? Of course not.

They are two different businesses requiring two different margins to do their jobs effectively. I’ve seen it. Try running a 45% business on 32% and see what you get at $2,000,000.00 a year gross……not much.

In short its my opinion that the financial education requirement is seriously missing for almost every other contractor I meet or hear about. For those that understand, it is obvious in their companies. The companies are healthier and more robust. The techs are happier and more capable. The owners are more focused on their long term financial goals for the company and not just today’s calls, or the next “sale”.

Flat rate has it’s place and I don’t think that it is flat rate’s fault that customers are overcharged. There’s a manager somewhere. An owner. The tech was given the authority to quote what he wanted. And there was no follow-up on the quality of the job.

Just think about your mechanic. He’s worth every penny when you “need” him. And no matter what anyone says, I would never want a surgeon that didn’t make more than I do ;-p

]]> By: ProTechhttp://www.thehvacguru.com/flat-rate-hvac-plumbing-companies/#comment-63 ProTech Thu, 07 Jan 2010 00:35:06 +0000 http://www.protechhvac.com/flat-rate-hvac-plumbing-companies/#comment-63 Hello Tom, Thank you for your thoughts on HVAC business, in general. You are spot on with your comment that most contractors do not know what their costs are. Most plumbing and/or HVAC businesses are small shops and most are not good at the financial end. I am starting a series of seminars on HVAC cost-of-doing-business this year. The fact that so little is known about the financial end of the business by the majority of those in it is a big problem for the trade as a whole. This dilemma suppresses the earning potential of everyone straight up the distribution ladder and creates a huge misunderstanding on the part of the consumer of what is a reasonable charge. I have been in HVAC sales for 22 years and have developed a very easy to use job estimating system that accounts for all of the costs that you cited in your succinct definition of the costs that tradesmen do not have a good handle on. Soon, I will be selling this system on my web site. This system will show estimated gross profit at the bottom, then allows the job to be costed out at completion so deviation between the actual numbers and the estimated ones will be easily demonstrated. There are honest and dishonest people in business, no matter what method is used to account for charges for service. Thanks again for commenting on my blog, and feel free to return anytime. Best, John Rocheleau Hello Tom,

Thank you for your thoughts on HVAC business, in general. You are spot on with your comment that most contractors do not know what their costs are. Most plumbing and/or HVAC businesses are small shops and most are not good at the financial end.

I am starting a series of seminars on HVAC cost-of-doing-business this year. The fact that so little is known about the financial end of the business by the majority of those in it is a big problem for the trade as a whole. This dilemma suppresses the earning potential of everyone straight up the distribution ladder and creates a huge misunderstanding on the part of the consumer of what is a reasonable charge.

I have been in HVAC sales for 22 years and have developed a very easy to use job estimating system that accounts for all of the costs that you cited in your succinct definition of the costs that tradesmen do not have a good handle on. Soon, I will be selling this system on my web site. This system will show estimated gross profit at the bottom, then allows the job to be costed out at completion so deviation between the actual numbers and the estimated ones will be easily demonstrated.

There are honest and dishonest people in business, no matter what method is used to account for charges for service.

Thanks again for commenting on my blog, and feel free to return anytime.

Best,
John Rocheleau

]]> By: Tom Vincenthttp://www.thehvacguru.com/flat-rate-hvac-plumbing-companies/#comment-62 Tom Vincent Wed, 06 Jan 2010 21:40:42 +0000 http://www.protechhvac.com/flat-rate-hvac-plumbing-companies/#comment-62 I agree with Eddie. Flat rate works well if set up honestly. It is, as a rule no more profitable than T&M if you include your true cost of doing business. The fact is most contractors do not know what the "true cost of doing business" is. Most of the hundreds of contractors I have worked with set their labor rate at "what everyone else charges." They don't really apply the overhead, to each hour of billable time. If you calculate your true over head, add the fully loaded labor cost, and things like profit, warranty reserves, return on investment, you can get a good idea where to start. You also need to look at typical parts sales as well. It makes no difference if you use flat rate, or T&M to recoup your cost, pay your labor, and make a profit. There are great contractors and great marketers... there are just not many that do both well. When you have a shop that hires great techs, invests in keeping them trained, pays them what they are worth, and has integrity with the customers, T&M and flat rate works equally well. Keep in mind however that you could have lower flat rate prices (compared to T&M) because you are removing the overhead cost of doing the bills. I agree with Eddie. Flat rate works well if set up honestly. It is, as a rule no more profitable than T&M if you include your true cost of doing business. The fact is most contractors do not know what the “true cost of doing business” is. Most of the hundreds of contractors I have worked with set their labor rate at “what everyone else charges.” They don’t really apply the overhead, to each hour of billable time. If you calculate your true over head, add the fully loaded labor cost, and things like profit, warranty reserves, return on investment, you can get a good idea where to start. You also need to look at typical parts sales as well. It makes no difference if you use flat rate, or T&M to recoup your cost, pay your labor, and make a profit.

There are great contractors and great marketers… there are just not many that do both well. When you have a shop that hires great techs, invests in keeping them trained, pays them what they are worth, and has integrity with the customers, T&M and flat rate works equally well. Keep in mind however that you could have lower flat rate prices (compared to T&M) because you are removing the overhead cost of doing the bills.

]]> By: Eddiehttp://www.thehvacguru.com/flat-rate-hvac-plumbing-companies/#comment-61 Eddie Fri, 18 Dec 2009 01:47:56 +0000 http://www.protechhvac.com/flat-rate-hvac-plumbing-companies/#comment-61 The problem is lack morals not Flat Rate, I know many companies that rip people off with (T&M) method as well. Used in a honest way, Flat rate is fair for the customer too. Consider, a average tech is only 50% productive. So 1/2 of his 8 hour day non-billable time. A company has to either deduct that from the tech or charge the customer. I personally think that a "book rate" between $125 to $175, should work in most areas in the US. Maybe a little more in large cities. The commission on repair sells is the part that make a tech rip of the customer. That being said, it can even work if the owner of the company sets high standards of honesty. "FREE MARKET" means you can charge what ever someone will pay you. HVAC tech are smart people and deserve a high wage. We had a copier repair man come to the office the other day and he charged $120 hour, for a copier. He did the job and I paid it with out question. Anyone who has ever ran a business know, is a company fails to make a profit, you have no job. I agree, you see many crooks in the HVAC and plumbing industry, feel the same way everytime I get my cars worked on, but the problem is not how they calculate the charge. It is a core moral fault. Let's just go out and prove, HVAC guys can be trusted! The problem is lack morals not Flat Rate, I know many companies that rip people off with (T&M) method as well. Used in a honest way, Flat rate is fair for the customer too. Consider, a average tech is only 50% productive. So 1/2 of his 8 hour day non-billable time. A company has to either deduct that from the tech or charge the customer. I personally think that a “book rate” between $125 to $175, should work in most areas in the US. Maybe a little more in large cities.
The commission on repair sells is the part that make a tech rip of the customer. That being said, it can even work if the owner of the company sets high standards of honesty. “FREE MARKET” means you can charge what ever someone will pay you. HVAC tech are smart people and deserve a high wage. We had a copier repair man come to the office the other day and he charged $120 hour, for a copier. He did the job and I paid it with out question. Anyone who has ever ran a business know, is a company fails to make a profit, you have no job.

I agree, you see many crooks in the HVAC and plumbing industry, feel the same way everytime I get my cars worked on, but the problem is not how they calculate the charge. It is a core moral fault.

Let’s just go out and prove, HVAC guys can be trusted!

]]> By: Roger Kennardhttp://www.thehvacguru.com/flat-rate-hvac-plumbing-companies/#comment-60 Roger Kennard Sat, 05 Dec 2009 23:23:36 +0000 http://www.protechhvac.com/flat-rate-hvac-plumbing-companies/#comment-60 John that was a great blog and it reminds me of myself. I dont have the years in that you have but i still agree with fair pricing. I tried working for a company doing service work and man i just couldnt do it. When I first started plumbing i learned from the ground up. You know ground works, roughin, finals, gas. I became good at troubleshooting problems with different problems. I thought this was good but when i was sent on a call back and the price that was charged I felt horrible. I then told the owner that i would not go on service calls any more because im to honest to do them. I didnt get fired but i guess it let them know what kinda guy I was. Since the economy is not so good im not plumbing anymore I have a chance to go to the flat rate companys but i just cant bring myself to do that. Like I said great article and hope you do well . Roger John that was a great blog and it reminds me of myself. I dont have the years in that you have but i still agree with fair pricing. I tried working for a company doing service work and man i just couldnt do it. When I first started plumbing i learned from the ground up. You know ground works, roughin, finals, gas. I became good at troubleshooting problems with different problems. I thought this was good but when i was sent on a call back and the price that was charged I felt horrible. I then told the owner that i would not go on service calls any more because im to honest to do them. I didnt get fired but i guess it let them know what kinda guy I was. Since the economy is not so good im not plumbing anymore I have a chance to go to the flat rate companys but i just cant bring myself to do that. Like I said great article and hope you do well . Roger

]]> By: Flat Rate Pricing Beware | ASKBOYD | HVAC Specialist | Heating & Air Conditioning Advicehttp://www.thehvacguru.com/flat-rate-hvac-plumbing-companies/#comment-59 Flat Rate Pricing Beware | ASKBOYD | HVAC Specialist | Heating & Air Conditioning Advice Thu, 12 Jun 2008 06:32:10 +0000 http://www.protechhvac.com/flat-rate-hvac-plumbing-companies/#comment-59 [...] Below is a reprint of John’s article.  Please make sure and visit John’s blog. [...] [...] Below is a reprint of John’s article.  Please make sure and visit John’s blog. [...]

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